We recently had the pleasure of joining Frank Wurst, Director of Logistics at Greif, for a conversation on the "Meet Me For Coffee" podcast, diving deep into the evolving world of supply chain and logistics. Drawing from his extensive career spanning over 25 years1, Frank shared valuable perspectives on technology, market dynamics, and strategic carrier relationships.
Frank noted a significant shift in the perception and role of supply chain and logistics within companies over his career. What was once often treated as an expense or just a cost of doing business, is now increasingly viewed as a strategic function with a seat at the table1. Forward-thinking companies are integrating logistics into broader supply chain planning, such as SNOP (Sales and Operations Planning). This allows them to explore how transportation decisions can impact inventory levels, manage risks, and improve service, looking at the entire supply chain with its inherent "gives and takes". Frank specifically saw this shift accelerate during his time at Church & Dwight, highlighting their high level of forecast accuracy as a key enabler for smoother transportation sourcing.
A major catalyst for this evolution is technology. Frank emphasized the widespread adoption of Transportation Management Systems (TMS) among large enterprise shippers, which provides the ability to quickly access and analyze historical data linked directly to ERP systems. This access to good data allows for better decision-making.
Greif is actively exploring new technologies to move beyond static, time-consuming RFP processes. Frank shared that he attended Manifest with a mission to enhance Greif's technology in this area, aiming for more dynamic RFPs that can be issued and managed more fluidly and quickly compared to traditional methods that can take 6 months from start to finish with rates valid for a year. The goal is to transition from relying solely on forecasts and history to embracing novel technologies for dynamic sourcing.
As Director of Logistics at Greif, Frank's role involves overseeing operations, logistics administration, and sourcing. Greif's business model, which includes approximately 122 North American manufacturing sites, is highly regional. This often results in shorter lengths of haul compared to many other companies. This regional footprint leads Greif to utilize a balanced mix of national asset-based carriers, national brokers, and crucially, niche regional asset-based carriers whose footprints align with their plants6. Frank emphasized the importance of working with smaller local companies in addition to larger ones, finding them to be a "really good fit".
The vast majority of Greif's freight is full truckload, moving products like steel drums, fiber drums, and corrugated materials, where order quantities typically fill a truck7. Frank finds the US truckload market particularly fascinating due to its unique characteristics: hundreds of thousands of providers offering a service (not a commodity), and notably, extremely low switching costs for both shippers and carriers. This dynamic makes carrier relationships especially important.
Given the low switching costs in truckload, Greif focuses on building strategic relationships with carriers. They strive to be a "shipper of choice" by being transparent, sharing data, setting clear expectations, and using scorecards to manage by fact. They track performance metrics like tender acceptance, honoring awards, on-time pickup, and on-time delivery, providing surgical, transparent feedback based on performance over periods like six weeks, rather than reacting to isolated incidents.
When selecting carriers, Greif uses a "three-legged stool" approach, balancing cost, service, and safety compliance. Frank stressed that a cheap "paper rate" is meaningless if it doesn't come with capacity or leads to missed pickups. Experience is crucial in discerning real rates from unreliable ones.
Regarding RFPs and award length, Greif aims for awards that are in place for at least a year, with rate validity varying between six months and a year depending on the freight, allowing for flexibility to tune into market conditions. Dedicated fleets are awarded with longer terms, typically three to five years, which is attractive to carriers due to the predictability.
Frank also touched upon the industry trend of reducing the number of transportation providers, acknowledging that the ideal number varies based on a company's specific footprint and network. He highlighted the importance of being deliberate about who Greif works with and ensuring they remain relevant to their carriers by providing a decent amount of volume and communicating their strategy. He also praised Greif's practice of providing feedback to carriers participating in RFPs, even if they don't win awards, recognizing the effort carriers put in.
Greif's volumes are closely tied to US industrial production.... Frank noted that when industrial production increases and the industrial economy picks up, Greif's volumes will also increase. This also typically coincides with an increase in truckload rates, both spot and contract.
Discussing the current market state, Frank observed that spot market rates are still significantly suppressed, citing a DAT stat showing them 40 cents a mile below contract rates.... While Greif strategically utilizes the spot market for cost benefits, they avoid overexposure, anticipating the market will eventually flip. However, Frank admitted his personal forecast for this flip has been wrong for the past two years1...
Based on the current economic uncertainty and recent industrial manufacturing data, Frank's best estimate is that things will remain relatively steady through the rest of the current year, with a slight recovery for freight rates potentially occurring sometime in 2026.... The 40-cent gap between spot and contract rates suggests market tightness is not imminent until that gap converges. Despite the extended duration of the current rate cycle, Greif feels well-prepared due to their team and strong carrier relationships.
Frank receives numerous solicitations daily but focuses his time on internal stakeholders, his team, and incumbent strategic carriers. He views most cold calls and emails like junk mail due to the sheer volume. While Greif's eyes are always open to new carriers due to the dynamic industry, engagement requires a genuine connection and understanding of their business....
Simply stating the number of trucks a carrier has is "white noise". Frank values relationships, often knowing the CEO or founder of their partner brokers. He believes the "special sauce" is understanding Greif's strategies and demonstrating a real interest in their business.... Some of Greif's best carrier partners know more about their network and packaging business than Frank himself. This level of understanding makes a provider more "sticky" and harder to replace.
For providers looking to connect, Frank suggested industry events as a way to meet and build relationships. He also emphasized the importance of striking a balance: showing that you understand the shipper's business while clearly articulating why your services are a good fit, rather than just listing facts about the shipper or just listing your own capabilities. Ultimately, providers who are truly interested in understanding the shipper's business and building a relationship beyond the transactional stand out.
Frank encouraged connecting via LinkedIn as the easiest way to keep track of what he's doing.